Q&A: Why Not Speedlights?
Garrett Hamilton asks the following question in the comments of the On Assignment Trip Jennings post:
__________
"I'm still a 'small guy' in terms of my lighting gear bag, and just was wondering how this would have turned out with smaller strobes. Do you think you could have gotten the same results?
Because, honestly, some of my work is just like this. And I'm trying to decide when enough is enough for my small SB's."
Garrett, hit the jump for some specific-to-this-shoot thoughts on small lights vs big.
__________
Short answer is, yes, I could have gotten very close. None of the shots shown in the post would have been very hard to approximate with speedlights.
And since one of my two Vagabond II inverters was in for repair (leaving me with a single point of failure for AB's) I had a backup set of speedlights with me just in case. I think I mentioned that in the pre-production post, actually.
Competing with post-sunset ambient does not take very much power. So we could have done it with speedlights at pretty low power levels, too. We were not even using modeling lights on the AlienBees. So no problems there, either.
I would have used an Orbis or a Ray Flash adapter (probably an Orbis here -- it's a physically bigger light source) as fill, and a gridded SB-800 as key. For the softer key I would have used a Lumy SB-III and brought it in a little closer to make it softer.
So why not just go with SB's then?
For one thing, we got more shooting time with AlienBees. We started in the late afternoon, and at that point were competing with direct sun. So the bigger flashes allowed us to overpower the afternoon light, and to do so without waiting for long recycles.
So it made sense to start out with big lights from the get go, and to use the SB's as backups in case we had a problem with the Vagabond II portable AC outlet we used for the big lights.
Oh, and when I sent the other Vagabond II in for service, I kept the battery from it, so I still had that double capacity at the ready. Just no redundancy on the inverter itself.
__________
Important thing on big lights vs. speedlights: If you learn manual and think of your speedlights as little monoblocs, there are no translation difficulties at all when switching between the two platforms. In fact, I use them together as often as not.
And as long as all of your gear is speaking the same language, you are left to choose based on (a) what you have available, and (b) what is best suited for the job at hand.
It's all light. Same thought process, same physics. The people who whine that an AB "isn't Strobist" don't get it.
The tutorial modules on this site are not about just restricting yourself to small flashes. It is about learning to think about your small flashes as if they were studio strobes. And hopefully, that key allows you to circumvent a lot of lighting-related anxiety.
Where you go from there is up to you.
__________
"I'm still a 'small guy' in terms of my lighting gear bag, and just was wondering how this would have turned out with smaller strobes. Do you think you could have gotten the same results? Because, honestly, some of my work is just like this. And I'm trying to decide when enough is enough for my small SB's."
Garrett, hit the jump for some specific-to-this-shoot thoughts on small lights vs big.
__________
Short answer is, yes, I could have gotten very close. None of the shots shown in the post would have been very hard to approximate with speedlights.
And since one of my two Vagabond II inverters was in for repair (leaving me with a single point of failure for AB's) I had a backup set of speedlights with me just in case. I think I mentioned that in the pre-production post, actually.
Competing with post-sunset ambient does not take very much power. So we could have done it with speedlights at pretty low power levels, too. We were not even using modeling lights on the AlienBees. So no problems there, either.
I would have used an Orbis or a Ray Flash adapter (probably an Orbis here -- it's a physically bigger light source) as fill, and a gridded SB-800 as key. For the softer key I would have used a Lumy SB-III and brought it in a little closer to make it softer.
So why not just go with SB's then?
For one thing, we got more shooting time with AlienBees. We started in the late afternoon, and at that point were competing with direct sun. So the bigger flashes allowed us to overpower the afternoon light, and to do so without waiting for long recycles.
So it made sense to start out with big lights from the get go, and to use the SB's as backups in case we had a problem with the Vagabond II portable AC outlet we used for the big lights.
Oh, and when I sent the other Vagabond II in for service, I kept the battery from it, so I still had that double capacity at the ready. Just no redundancy on the inverter itself.
__________
Important thing on big lights vs. speedlights: If you learn manual and think of your speedlights as little monoblocs, there are no translation difficulties at all when switching between the two platforms. In fact, I use them together as often as not.
And as long as all of your gear is speaking the same language, you are left to choose based on (a) what you have available, and (b) what is best suited for the job at hand.
It's all light. Same thought process, same physics. The people who whine that an AB "isn't Strobist" don't get it.
The tutorial modules on this site are not about just restricting yourself to small flashes. It is about learning to think about your small flashes as if they were studio strobes. And hopefully, that key allows you to circumvent a lot of lighting-related anxiety.
Where you go from there is up to you.
__________
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Posted at 11:18 PM.
33 Comments:
Garrett was my roommate i school and thankfully he is asking you now and not calling me at all hours of the day!!!
Great advice as always and I hope he listens and stops burning up my phone line.
Thank you for your time explaining this. I really appreciate it, as I am a big follower of your posts and take into consideration everything you have to offer.
Garrett Hamilton
www.garretthamilton.com
I do find the "brotherhood of speedliters" interesting in saying that David "Strobist" Hobby using big lights ins "unStrobist" - considering that:
a) you are Strobist
and
b) light is light... scale the concept to what tools you have at your disposal
For some reason whenever I hear people talking about small flash, the presumption is that the ones in question are the Nikon SB series. While I don't want to start any flame wars about the Nikon SB's versus the Canon EX line - I am curious as to why there isn't as much mention of the Canon lineup. Is it the previous lack of a CLS-like system, the omission of the PC sync cord until recently, or some other reason?
My question is born out of many of the DIY projects I've seen on here...snoots, grids, beauty dishes, etc. Maany of the materials used in those projects just are not the same for Canon gear as Nikon gear.
Do you use the term speedlight to refer to any generic small camera flash, or typically are you using the terms speedlight (or strobe/strobist for that matter) as a reference to the SB lineup?
Amen. If you only have small strobes, DH is here to show you how you can make them work. However, it's all about light. That's all it is. There is no such thing as "the Strobist way". The man is just teaching the principles of lighting (with the most commonly available hardware).
I believe the shots were a little "low key" for him being such a hardcore guy...Ben (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidhobby/2776002397/in/set-72157602259318619) is way cooler looking than than this guy...
I believe the shots were a little "low key" for him being such a hardcore guy...Ben (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidhobby/2776002397/in/set-72157602259318619) is way cooler looking than than this guy...
Thanks for the clarification, David! I can say in the beginning I thought "Strobist is about small flashes" but later I found myself using a mix of SB's and big lights in a studio on a regular basis.
Great topic there David, learn to work with what you have, small lights,big lights, ambient light, reflectors,even ambient off a white building. Your site has been a very great help to starters like me to see and understand light and how to use it.
Thanks St. David of Baltimore (quoting a lil McNally there) for helping us see the light :)
Perfect answer. Light is Light.
Thank you David.
Dude, you are an inspiration.
The problem with speedlights not being powerful is diffusion. Pop one speedlight through a large octabox with an internal baffle (to get a better, softer quality of light) and the power output takes a massive hit.
Monos and powerpacks are the best, unless you want to do a McNally and use 8/9 SB900s all clustered and fired through the same soft/octa/diffusion panel.
H.
I use speedlights for just about everything. I even used to shoot catalog with 4 SB28's. As nice as it is to have that extra power, speedlights are good enough for most semi-pro photographers needs.
Thanks for the further insight David. Good stuff.
Just to beat that dead horse some more... the header on this blog says
"Strobist. Learn How to Light."
NOT
"Strobist. Learn How to Light Using Only Speedlights."
It doesn't matter where the light comes from, the magic is how you use the light.
Great, that oughtta take care of the whiners FOREVER. Let's talk light, any F&$%@! light that's available.
Hi David,
I've been reading your tutorials.
Alien bees aren't available here.
And I'm thinking of Over powering the sun with a flash attached with a soft box.
I was told I would not be able to or I must try very hard to.
afternoon Sun not mid day..
My flash is a nissin di 866 with almost the same power with sb900's
would this be powerful enough?
if not .. I would be considering a purchase with " like b800 " battery powered strobe of this spec:
Output Range: 300W
Guide No.: 56m
Color Temperatue: 5600K
Variation: from 1/32 to 1 (Stepless light regulation)
Recycling Time: 0.5-2S
Flash Duration: 1/1500S - 1/800S
Cooling Fan: Built-in mini cooling fan
Modeling Lamp: E27/100W or E27/20W
Synch Voltage: 5V DC
Power Supply: 220-240V
taking into consideration the soft box will eat light.
Thanks,
Paul
Hi David,
Would this be enough to overpower the afternoon sun ?
Alienn bees aren't available here..
Output Range: 300W
Guide No.: 56m
Color Temperatue: 5600K
Variation: from 1/32 to 1 (Stepless light regulation)
Recycling Time: 0.5-2S
Flash Duration: 1/1500S - 1/800S
Cooling Fan: Built-in mini cooling fan
Modeling Lamp: E27/100W or E27/20W
Synch Voltage: 5V DC
Power Supply: 220-240V
What was the problem with your vagabond.How old was it. I would like to buy one this year or one like it.
@Jason-
No major conspiracy -- I am a Nikon guy. And Nikon does make better flashes for off-camera manual lighting (most have PC ports, some have fantastic slaves, etc.)
So many people who shoot Canon actually buy older Nikon speedlights and use them as little slaved varipower manual monolights.
FWIW, Canon was out there kicking Nikon's ass with the original 5D for a couple years, too...
@Will-
I think the inverter had a bad board in it. They swapped it out, no Q's asked. Great service.
Longtime reader first time comment (er). This is a great post because it brings home the idea that a good photographer uses different tools rather than relying on a method that worked before. I have used everything from Photogenic powerpacks and studio flashes to my SB's. More recently I used a photogenic studiomax slaved and fired it with my SB600 on camera. Eventually I got the light I was wanting but it took quite an amount of experimenting before that happened.
I am a big fan of Strobist. I purchased the DVD set and have used many of the techniques that DH highlights on it. However even those techniques are subject to my creativity which in the end will make me a better photographer.
David, I live in Frederick, MD ....when is it going to stop snowing?
Stephen, it will continue to snow until Al Gore crys, "UNCLE".
how i love david hobby. he reminds me of my life drawing instructor who said the landscape artist are only landscape artist because they can't draw the human form (same goes for 'natual light' photographers, in my opinion).
strobist is a strobist. when pepole 'whine' about an sb or not, off camera light is the best thing to learn to control and when you can dim the sun, well, you have learned a bunch. my point being, any light you can use to modify, the better.
thank you david!
I'd like to posit some reasons why the alien bee system may have been more up to the task. Several modifiers that i have-- beauty dish, grids--are designed to fit right onto the beauty dish. Thus while they could be adapted or DIY'ed to a speed light, the intentional design makes the alien bee system easier to use in these respects. Further, with use of a westcott apollo 28" softbox, the alien bee allows a more unrestricted swivel downwards than a speedlight on an umbrella bracket. Also, I, for some reason, feel bad popping my sb900, vivs and sb28 too hard at full power. I cannot explain it, but for some reason hesitate feeling that I am abusing the equipment. Be it nervousness about running my batteries down or just abusing and pushing too much light through them, it gives me pause. The alienbees on a vagabond do not pose this mental impediment--I view them as purposely designed tools on a large battery just made to bark large quantities of light where i need it. Strange, but some weird mental tick of mine.
It's true: light is light. If color temperature is important to you, though, speedlights vary somewhat over time and more significantly with flash power. I did a quick test to compare the following units: Nikon SB-900, Nikon SB-800, ABR800 (AlienBees ring flash), and Dyna-Lite strobes.
Check out the graphs:
http://marcjulienobjois.com/blog/2010/02/color-temperature-testing/
@daniel: I use my Vivitar 285HVs at full power all the time. They are the Geo Metro of Strobist photography; not very sexy, but they can take a beating and last for decades.
What everyone is missing, including The Strobist himself is how the strobist way is different from what came before. At its essence Strobism is building your lighting in harmony with the ambient light--a strobist takes the ambient and shapes it to his or her vision through the clever use of strobes.
Contrast this with many studio photographers who specifically exclude the ambient with windowless studios and black walls.
So it doesn't matter what lighting instruments the Strobist uses to make the music, it's that he or she uses them in concert with the ambient light.
I view the "Strobist" differently. I have always felt that David's mission was to reject the idea that you had to have big expensive equipment to get a shot, and to use your brain to solve problems. He demonstrated this by showing all you need is a few used Speedlights, and some homemade modifiers.
But your brand identity is actually created by your customer's perception of who you are. Thus the perception of the Strobist is that it is about small lights and cheap modifiers. It is no surprise then, that David's use of larger lights clashes with that perception.
David can ignore this issue, or embrace it by offering (for example) an article showing his studio light shoot, then a follow-up article showing how he would have approached it with a couple of speedlights, cardboard and duct tape.
I think the educational value of this might re-align his efforts with his reader's perceptions of what Strobist means.
How about it, David?
thanks for the explanation david. these were pretty much my thoughts for your reasoning. whenever i'm shooting a photo with the sun in the frame, you have to put out a bunch of juice to compete with the intensity. besides that using big lights would be for recycle time. if you're shooting constantly, without a speed recycler, you'll eat up a lot of batteries. i don't own big lights, but do use them often. i'd have to say, you can do a whole lot with speedlights as long as its nothing out of the ordinary. they're lighter and you can get them into tighter positions, which is why i love them. i do lots of action and outdoors stuff, so when i'm walking down a river trail, its nicer to have lighter gear. thanks.
shawn chamberlin
www.shawntakesfotos.com
@Penguin-
We see it a little differently, but not much. It's not about whether you kill the ambient or use it. It is about being able to make the choice.
It's about controlling the ambient. Killing it is a subset of controlling it.
@MoGF-
I have explained my focus and reasons for it multiple times, so I am not going to repeat that here.
Suffice to say that if you want to use only small flashes, more power to you. (Okay, maybe not the best way to put it...) You can go back and re-read the small flash stuff as much as you want.
I am not about limiting people, I am about enabling them to grow. I just think it makes more sense.
If you are uncomfortable because you think that the mandate of the site has expanded, I understand. But fair warning -- it is going to expand again soon.
A lot.
-D
@David
That's what I was trying to say. Your breakthrough is that you show people how to escape from their own handcuffs when it comes to light. You were the first person to explain that anything can be a tool for lighting, from black tinfoil and ball bungees to the latest high-end Elinchrom, and apparently beyond.
When I was a student at The University of Georgia many years ago, Joe Holloway, an AP photographer in Atlanta came and showed a tray of his slides to the local Society for Professional Journalists meeting in Athens. Someone in the audience asked Joe if some of the important civil rights related pictures he was showing had been shot with available light.
Joe responded in the affirmative and that his strobe was the only available light he had.
I thought this was relevant to the "light is light" comment earlier in this thread and a story I thought others would enjoy.
I came across a website that does photoshop for your images for about $16/image. They provide approx 24 hour turn around time and the final products are really top notch. I can't afford an assistant or studio guru, but for $16 a pop, this is AWESOME. I posted the most recent job they did on my Flickr site. Hit me up if you have questions. Thanks.
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